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Post by JP4464 on Mar 24, 2015 20:21:43 GMT
Having a splat roller is really useful for covering ink, and especially for taking control of the splat zone. However, I think it's crucial that someone accompanies or supports the roller. Though the roller covers tons of area, roller's have no range in their attack.
In this mode, I envision charger weapons to be great complements for Rollers.
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Post by TheSpeedyMouse on Mar 24, 2015 20:30:12 GMT
The Splatter Shot could be good for getting enemies quickly while holding the base. Then at the same time charger weapons could get enemies from a distance. Then the Splat Roller could keep reinking the zone.
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Post by JP4464 on Mar 29, 2015 18:10:39 GMT
I remember someone saying that Splat Zones could involve more than one splat zone, since the gameplay we've seen refers to the point as "A Zone" instead of "The Zone"
While it may be a stretch, I wouldn't be surprised if something along those lines pops up in the final build of the game.
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Post by Lozjam on Mar 29, 2015 19:15:36 GMT
For a competitive round of Splat Zones(with the weapons we have seen in action), I can ideally see what kind of builds would be most rounded. I can see them being Splat Roller(our Melee weapon that covers a lot of ground) Squelch Blaster(Not great at covering, but rapid fire weapons that excel in close combat. SplatterShot Jr. would also work as well) SplatterShot(the well rounded weapon, but you could also go for a rapid fire weapon with more paint splatter, and less combative properties) Splat Charger(a weapon that excels in long range) A good strategy would be to have your 2 rapid fire players Squidjump towards the zone, as fast as possible, to get an early lead on the zone. These 2 will also distract the other teams players. The Splat Rollers should take a side route, in which the can surprise the players and kill them. The Splat Charger would work on covering the route to the zone with ink, for easy transport. They would get destroyed normally in close combat, so that little time in which the others can take over the zones can be put to good use. Once the zone has been taken over, the charger would take high ground in order to kill other players. The splat roller should hid in ink, close to the opponents base, in order to use their sub weapons, and one hit the players once they forge ahead. The 2 rapid fire weapons should work on covering the the side routes of the zones, in order to hole them up. Keep holding the zone, and victory will come easy. So yeah, what do you guys think of this strategy?
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Xeiros
Inkling Admiral
Posts: 253
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Post by Xeiros on Mar 29, 2015 19:43:17 GMT
If you can think of it, your opponents can as well. Assuming the enemy team never catches on this relies on them doing more or less exactly what you want. Why would they be distracted by the two rapid fire players when everyone is well aware the primary goal is to gain control of the zone? Is this theoretical team gullible and stupid? I could understand then why they might not initially be aware of the two outside routes in Walleye Warehouse if they were at least new to the map.
When you come up with a strategy, the next step is to figure out what could go wrong or why it might not work in the first place. These are basic obvious ideas. You saw many of them being employed or outright mentioned in the newest hands on videos. Have snipers use the high ground? They did that. Camp in front of the opponents base? Yup, they did that too. The largest weakness with camping in Splatoon is that in order to hide effectively you must have some ink to do so in, ink that is extremely obvious with nothing more than quick glance at the Gamepad.
Green team grunt #2 "Wow there's some purple ink in front of our base. I sure hope no one's hiding in it. I'm sure it's nothing to worry about ..."
I'll repeat myself. If you can think of it, your opponents can as well. Assume they'll do just what you want at your own folly. I'd argue that success in Splat Zones is less about coming up with some sort of fantastic strategy and more about how well your team is able to communicate and therefore adapt to a constantly changing situation. I'd approach each match mentally with the assumption the opposing teams knows everything we do and that even if they didn't at first, it wouldn't take them long to catch on and adapt to whatever we tried.
Plans in theory rarely work out the way you imagine them too when you actually put them into practice. No matter how full-proof they may seem in paper. Only through a significant amount of experience with the same people can the the level of cohesion needed for smooth adaptability regardless of the current situation be developed which is arguably the most important trait a good team should have.
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Post by inyo on Mar 29, 2015 21:14:27 GMT
Considering how fast things change in the two modes we've seen, I think being long-term planning will be secondary to being able to change your focus on the fly.
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Post by JP4464 on Mar 29, 2015 21:26:24 GMT
If you can think of it, your opponents can as well. Assuming the enemy team never catches on this relies on them doing more or less exactly what you want. Why would they be distracted by the two rapid fire players when everyone is well aware the primary goal is to gain control of the zone? Is this theoretical team gullible and stupid? I could understand then why they might not initially be aware of the two outside routes in Walleye Warehouse if they were at least new to the map. When you come up with a strategy, the next step is to figure out what could go wrong or why it might not work in the first place. These are basic obvious ideas. You saw many of them being employed or outright mentioned in the newest hands on videos. Have snipers use the high ground? They did that. Camp in front of the opponents base? Yup, they did that too. The largest weakness with camping in Splatoon is that in order to hide effectively you must have some ink to do so in, ink that is extremely obvious with nothing more than quick glance at the Gamepad. Green team grunt #2 "Wow there's some purple ink in front of our base. I sure hope no one's hiding in it. I'm sure it's nothing to worry about ..." I'll repeat myself. If you can think of it, your opponents can as well. Assume they'll do just what you want at your own folly. I'd argue that success in Splat Zones is less about coming up with some sort of fantastic strategy and more about how well your team is able to communicate and therefore adapt to a constantly changing situation. I'd approach each match mentally with the assumption the opposing teams knows everything we do and that even if they didn't at first, it wouldn't take them long to catch on and adapt to whatever we tried. Plans in theory rarely work out the way you imagine them too when you actually put them into practice. No matter how full-proof they may seem in paper. Only through a significant amount of experience with the same people can the the level of cohesion needed for smooth adaptability regardless of the current situation be developed which is arguably the most important trait a good team should have. I'd argue that, while adaptation is a crucial element of competitive games like Splatoon, it's good to have some kind of strategy when deciding the team composition. Even if there isn't really a plan when trying to cap the Splat Zone, the load outs that you choose can pretty much dictate how your team will approach the point.
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Xeiros
Inkling Admiral
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Post by Xeiros on Mar 29, 2015 22:03:55 GMT
It is precisely because a player must reach level 10 before they may participate in Splat Zones that they are highly likely if not outright guaranteed to have experienced all those strategies and more on their journey to said level. Everything from Sniping from the high ground, hiding in your own ink, using the map's layout to try and outflank your opponent, knowing a map's layout on all levels period, using the Gamepad to keep up with the flow of ink coverage and one's teammates, the perk system's ins and outs, to acquiring first-hand experience with the various weapon sets including how to work both with and against them.
Those are just some of what players will have gained by the time they're able to access Splat Zones. As such, it is nearly impossible to catch even a player new to Splat Zones off guard with any of those basic tactics for that very reason. The level requirement helps to lay the foundation for already experienced players to go head to head in a new way. Were it possible to jump into said mode right from the get go, it'd be a different story.
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Post by TheSpeedyMouse on Mar 29, 2015 22:24:50 GMT
I really want to know how fast leveling in coolness is.
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Post by Lozjam on Mar 29, 2015 22:45:42 GMT
If you can think of it, your opponents can as well. Assuming the enemy team never catches on this relies on them doing more or less exactly what you want. Why would they be distracted by the two rapid fire players when everyone is well aware the primary goal is to gain control of the zone? Is this theoretical team gullible and stupid? I could understand then why they might not initially be aware of the two outside routes in Walleye Warehouse if they were at least new to the map. When you come up with a strategy, the next step is to figure out what could go wrong or why it might not work in the first place. These are basic obvious ideas. You saw many of them being employed or outright mentioned in the newest hands on videos. Have snipers use the high ground? They did that. Camp in front of the opponents base? Yup, they did that too. The largest weakness with camping in Splatoon is that in order to hide effectively you must have some ink to do so in, ink that is extremely obvious with nothing more than quick glance at the Gamepad. Green team grunt #2 "Wow there's some purple ink in front of our base. I sure hope no one's hiding in it. I'm sure it's nothing to worry about ..." I'll repeat myself. If you can think of it, your opponents can as well. Assume they'll do just what you want at your own folly. I'd argue that success in Splat Zones is less about coming up with some sort of fantastic strategy and more about how well your team is able to communicate and therefore adapt to a constantly changing situation. I'd approach each match mentally with the assumption the opposing teams knows everything we do and that even if they didn't at first, it wouldn't take them long to catch on and adapt to whatever we tried. Plans in theory rarely work out the way you imagine them too when you actually put them into practice. No matter how full-proof they may seem in paper. Only through a significant amount of experience with the same people can the the level of cohesion needed for smooth adaptability regardless of the current situation be developed which is arguably the most important trait a good team should have. Ummmm This is somewhat wrong..... For example, in competitive Smash there is a lot of strategy put into it. For each specific matchup, and for each character, there is always a best strategy you have to go for. Pro players normally pull these off despite the opponent knowing what the strategy is. Why do they caught off guard? Mind games. You can still go for an overall strategy, but when you mix things up every once in a while, you can catch your opponent off guard as well. For example, Melee Marth Approaching with a grab, in which instead of grabbing, using dancing blade against the opponent you was expecting a grab, and then punishing their landing lag with a grab. That character still has the same strategy, but a different overall execution. Mind games... This is what is going to differentiate between good and excellent Splatoon players. So yes, this strategy will probably work, but as they do, mind games will catch your opponents off-guard even further, and combat against other high-level players.
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skyblue
Inkling Commander
Ink! (ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ*:・゚✧
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Post by skyblue on Mar 29, 2015 23:08:51 GMT
If you can think of it, your opponents can as well. Assuming the enemy team never catches on this relies on them doing more or less exactly what you want. Why would they be distracted by the two rapid fire players when everyone is well aware the primary goal is to gain control of the zone? Is this theoretical team gullible and stupid? I could understand then why they might not initially be aware of the two outside routes in Walleye Warehouse if they were at least new to the map. When you come up with a strategy, the next step is to figure out what could go wrong or why it might not work in the first place. These are basic obvious ideas. You saw many of them being employed or outright mentioned in the newest hands on videos. Have snipers use the high ground? They did that. Camp in front of the opponents base? Yup, they did that too. The largest weakness with camping in Splatoon is that in order to hide effectively you must have some ink to do so in, ink that is extremely obvious with nothing more than quick glance at the Gamepad. Green team grunt #2 "Wow there's some purple ink in front of our base. I sure hope no one's hiding in it. I'm sure it's nothing to worry about ..." I'll repeat myself. If you can think of it, your opponents can as well. Assume they'll do just what you want at your own folly. I'd argue that success in Splat Zones is less about coming up with some sort of fantastic strategy and more about how well your team is able to communicate and therefore adapt to a constantly changing situation. I'd approach each match mentally with the assumption the opposing teams knows everything we do and that even if they didn't at first, it wouldn't take them long to catch on and adapt to whatever we tried. Plans in theory rarely work out the way you imagine them too when you actually put them into practice. No matter how full-proof they may seem in paper. Only through a significant amount of experience with the same people can the the level of cohesion needed for smooth adaptability regardless of the current situation be developed which is arguably the most important trait a good team should have. Ummmm This is somewhat wrong..... For example, in competitive Smash there is a lot of strategy put into it. For each specific matchup, and for each character, there is always a best strategy you have to go for. Pro players normally pull these off despite the opponent knowing what the strategy is. Why do they caught off guard? Mind games. You can still go for an overall strategy, but when you mix things up every once in a while, you can catch your opponent off guard as well. For example, Melee Marth Approaching with a grab, in which instead of grabbing, using dancing blade against the opponent you was expecting a grab, and then punishing their landing lag with a grab. That character still has the same strategy, but a different overall execution. Mind games... This is what is going to differentiate between good and excellent Splatoon players. So yes, this strategy will probably work, but as they do, mind games will catch your opponents off-guard even further, and combat against other high-level players. The thing is.......this game is all about teamwork. In turf war, even if all you do is go around the sides to cover ground that's being left alone, or slowly taking enemy territory, your still working for the better of the team. But the hiding in a puddle right in front of the enemies base for ex won't work out too well. If theres at least 2 of you, then you can hold them off long enough for your other two team mates to cover some significant ground. But if you try to lone wolf it then your dead. Because your not invulnerable in that ink, just invisible. So popping out and killing one person is only gonna work once or twice, because once they re-spawn they'll know where your hiding. Let alone if they already killed you because you didn't see them, but they saw stray ink in their territory and wanted it gone. also comparing this to smash strategies doesn't work. especially 1v1 tactics when splatoon is 4v4........
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Post by Lozjam on Mar 29, 2015 23:38:11 GMT
Ummmm This is somewhat wrong..... For example, in competitive Smash there is a lot of strategy put into it. For each specific matchup, and for each character, there is always a best strategy you have to go for. Pro players normally pull these off despite the opponent knowing what the strategy is. Why do they caught off guard? Mind games. You can still go for an overall strategy, but when you mix things up every once in a while, you can catch your opponent off guard as well. For example, Melee Marth Approaching with a grab, in which instead of grabbing, using dancing blade against the opponent you was expecting a grab, and then punishing their landing lag with a grab. That character still has the same strategy, but a different overall execution. Mind games... This is what is going to differentiate between good and excellent Splatoon players. So yes, this strategy will probably work, but as they do, mind games will catch your opponents off-guard even further, and combat against other high-level players. The thing is.......this game is all about teamwork. In turf war, even if all you do is go around the sides to cover ground that's being left alone, or slowly taking enemy territory, your still working for the better of the team. But the hiding in a puddle right in front of the enemies base for ex won't work out too well. If theres at least 2 of you, then you can hold them off long enough for your other two team mates to cover some significant ground. But if you try to lone wolf it then your dead. Because your not invulnerable in that ink, just invisible. So popping out and killing one person is only gonna work once or twice, because once they re-spawn they'll know where your hiding. Let alone if they already killed you because you didn't see them, but they saw stray ink in their territory and wanted it gone. also comparing this to smash strategies doesn't work. especially 1v1 tactics when splatoon is 4v4........ 1. I never said "right in front of the enemies base", I said near. And of course the person using the roller would change position constantly in order to hide. Furthermore, the person with the Splat charger would be able to cover the Splat Roller. They would travel to a place where the opponents will likely cross, that isn't the side entrances, and the roller and charger would be in site of each other in case one of them falls. 2. I am talking about Splat Zone, in which killing other players is more of a priority, which is why the Roller and Charger need to be in sight of each other. 3. I totally disagree. I was talking to Xeiro about the use of strategy, not of the strategies themselves. Xeiro is saying that overall strategies are irrelevant, of which I proved him wrong. If you want a "team" example, the same things I talked about with Smash would apply to other games such as League of Legends, Team Fortress 2, or even something like Hearthstone. You need an overarching strategy with a fair amount of mind-games(and skill) in order to play successfully on a competitive level.
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skyblue
Inkling Commander
Ink! (ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ*:・゚✧
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Post by skyblue on Mar 30, 2015 0:06:01 GMT
alright let's bullet our reasons.
A) I was going off of this ex. given by xeiros Green team grunt #2 "Wow there's some purple ink in front of our base. I sure hope no one's hiding in it. I'm sure it's nothing to worry about ...". Also if your using the roller, and your going to hide out and wait for someone to come by to strike them.........you're a roller. Your options of killing them are a short/wide ranged slow-action burst of paint, or running over them(but make sure you not still in squid mode or else you won't be running over them). But as soon as you pop out they'll see you and start firing, and most likely scenario you kill each other or they kill you first. The way you worded that, you make it so that the roller would be facing the splat charger, and vice versa. But the rollers gonna have one heck of a time avenging the splat charger, especially if they're high up. If you mean the more likely they're both facing the same direction with the roller in front, then the roller isn't going to be in the line of sight to see if his splat charger buddy behind him is still there or not.
B) Splatzone is mostly about having your ink cover the majority of the zone that is outlined. Killing other players is more of a priority in this mode than turf war however, since your in such an enclosed space.
C) I wholeheartedly disagree. Xeiros didn't say strategies are irrelevant in splatoon, but that they have to be flexible. And please, enlighten me, what mind games are we talking about? Hiding in the ink? Hiding in the ink on the wall? Well they can do this too, and will be expecting it. Sure you can set up a killer wail, and then aim for the area outside its range expecting them to dodge it, but honestly mind games? What when you see them, and they see you your gonna shoot ink around them to get behind them? Sorry, but they're shooting at you, and you're only invisible when your not moving through the ink.
It's kill or be killed, ink the most territory or they do. If your team is a well oiled machine, then you can push the enemy back to their spawn zone, but that's not mind games, that's strategy/organization/teamwork.
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BradRock
Inkster Jr.
Rollin' to the goal!
Posts: 30
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Post by BradRock on Mar 30, 2015 0:44:22 GMT
Wowzers, this thread is pretty sophisticated. Clans could be cool, but I've never been one to join clans. I've had many opportunities in other games such as Halo, but it's never been something that has appealed to me.
That said, the idea of "working" as a free-lance player or a substitute is something I find interesting, temporarily assisting other clans/teams when they need some extra fire-power.
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Xeiros
Inkling Admiral
Posts: 253
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Post by Xeiros on Mar 30, 2015 0:52:54 GMT
I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty certain Nintendo is not going to allow Premade vs. PUG to happen period. So it's safe to assume you'll only be able to get matched with or challenge/be challenged by other Premade teams when it comes to ranked matches. Well assuming of course these theoretical custom premade team matches are even part of the main ranked circuit. It may well turn out to be similar to their MK approach and instead have it's own separate room based point system. Guess we'll see.
Either way, that's another reason not to underestimate the other team. They'll most likely also have put the same amount of thought into the composition, communication, and overall strategies for their team same as yours will have. Everything from general experience to individual player skill being more or less equal, what then is the deciding factor?
Is it the team that's played together longer and thus is able to better adapt to small changes in the flow of the game as a unit? Is it the smaller situational decisions players have to make on a case by case basis? Is it about consistently beating your man when faced with a direct confrontation so to speak? Perhaps they all matter in their own ways.
Sometimes even a seemingly insignificant decision like where a Roller user should place their sticky ink grenade (I can't recall its name) or the best time to use one's super weapon can make a world of difference. The kinds of choices made outside a predetermined strategy or job system. That's again, why flexibility is so important. Any plans you make before the match very likely can and will go wrong. It's how well your team deals with difficult situations that will in part determine its chances for success.
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