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Post by KOAHonSiZi on Jan 15, 2015 7:21:27 GMT
I think you guys are overreacting a bit about it. I get your concern but lets wait and see first before we start sweating about it. Also remember, things can get patched if something is OP'd or anything. I'm with you on this one. A lot of these fears are completely baseless. Even in a crap shoot game where balance wasn't even remotely considered in design, like Pokemon, they still work out fine in the end. Even if there is somehow a perfect for every class equipment set, or even just one perfect set for every class, that wouldn't matter too much competitively. Variety of playstyles don't create depth, variety in relevant tools in play does. The only issue that could possible come out of this, which is again, complete conjecture, is the possibility of randomized and unreproducible stat boosts on equipment like custom equipment in Smash Bros.
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Post by TheSplature on Jan 15, 2015 13:51:46 GMT
They did the same patch for the Wii U version of Smash actually. I think he meant that the Wii U didn't get like a balance patch of its own. The Wii U's balance patch was just the one the 3DS version got so both games would be the same. But the game hasn't been balanced by then. Regardless, obviously we can't know for sure until we have the game in our hands, but since that's the case, why not speculate? I don't necessarily have a problem with stat changes via clothing, I just want the option to toggle them off if I want to, just like I can turn off equipment and custom moves in Smash. I think you guys are overreacting a bit about it. I get your concern but lets wait and see first before we start sweating about it. Also remember, things can get patched if something is OP'd or anything. I'm with you on this one. A lot of these fears are completely baseless. Even in a crap shoot game where balance wasn't even remotely considered in design, like Pokemon, they still work out fine in the end. Even if there is somehow a perfect for every class equipment set, or even just one perfect set for every class, that wouldn't matter too much competitively. Variety of playstyles don't create depth, variety in relevant tools in play does. The only issue that could possible come out of this, which is again, complete conjecture, is the possibility of randomized and unreproducible stat boosts on equipment like custom equipment in Smash Bros. You kind of just contradicted yourself though. If there is just a sole optimal class or a sole optimal equipment set, then that offers virtually no variety in relevant tools in play at all, which in turn limits variety in playstyle. We want viability in load-outs and, if necessary, clothing in both playstyle and tool-set. Not having that narrows effective strategies and their counters, which will more than definitely stagnate the game. This happened to Starcraft 2: Wings of Liberty (the first expansion, whereas the second and current is Heart of the Swarm) in certain match-ups like Terran vs. Protoss. Terran inherently has a few different, effective playstyles you can work with: "bio" (foot-soldiers from barracks like Marines and Marauders supported by Medivacs), "mech" (an army essentially made up of mechanical units like Tanks and Hellions made from the factory), and "SkyTerran" (army made up of, you guessed it, a majority air units). However, in the TvP match-up, Terran players almost always had bio armys because mech armies weren't as effective and could be too slow to react to Protoss pressure and SkyTerran relied on a lot of resources and teching while still having issues dealing with mass Blink Stalker groups. So Terran was essentially limited to one style of play in one of its three match-ups. So you have a game that has only three races and out of its six possible match-ups, one race (Yerran) is almost always going to do one thing. Now, likewise, a number of other match-ups were somewhat similar or some army configurations were so effective that others weren't seen as much (such as Zerg's late-game Broodlord/Infestor combo). Let's apply this to Splatoon. Let's say there's only ten pre-arranged loadouts in the game, but we come to find out that only 1-2 loadouts are viable. They pretty much outclass the rest of the game's loadouts and nobody picks anything but these 1-2 loadouts. Immediately, the game is narrowed - there aren't as many effective strategies to win because there aren't as many viable tools to work with, which narrows every player's versatility both in the match and when preparing for it. That imbalance will become pretty evident to the most competitive players and it'll eventually trickle down. And an imbalanced game will most certainly stagnate, and that ultimately shortens the game's lifespan if it isn't patched. Plus, it's just bad game design. Why have all the options if only 1-2 are viable? Sure, you might say, "it only matters competitively," but that's not the case. If everyone is picking the same 1-2 loadouts and you're not picking one of them, you start at a disadvantage before the match even begins. Then you have to deal with not only that, but potentially being at a lower skill level, as well. With more variety in viable loadouts, lesser skiller players at least have a chance to use one of the many viable loadouts as a crutch to keep them potent in the game until they improve (or don't and they just meander through the game forever). Then, at higher levels of play, variety in viable loadouts and outfits makes the game more diverse, does give it more depth, makes it more fun to watch (if nobody watches, the game dies), and I can pretty much guarantee is more fun to play. Still, it may not be this extreme entirely. I do think that it is very important and vital to have a large variety of viable load-outs, but if there was only a very few number or only one set of clothing that was the most optimal, we could just have every player in tournaments use that selected outfit, that way everyone is at least on the same level on that end. Would certainly be good logistically. And yeah, of course, randomized and non-reproducible stat changes on clothes are hopefully not what we're dealing with here.
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Post by KOAHonSiZi on Jan 15, 2015 21:16:32 GMT
I have a rebuttal to your post, but I won't be able to sit down and write it out until Saturday because of work. In the mean time, here's my updated reddit post.
Weapons
Main -5.2 Gallon, looks like a grenade launcher, rapid fires -Ink Gun, not the basic weapon from E3 2014, didn't see it in action -Ink Rifle, the explosive sniper like weapon we've been seeing in trailers -Scoped Ink Rifle, didn't see in action, unnamed, looks exactly like the Ink Rifle, but has a scope -Quick Ink Rifle, ?less powerful Ink Rifle variant?, didn't see in action -Main Gun, basic weapon from E3 2014, never named -Paint Brush, didn't see it in action, unnamed -Ink Roller, paint roller we've been seeing in trailers -Super Ink Roller, unnamed, saw for a quick second and used what looked like a melee attack
Sub -Ink Bomb, grenade from E3 2014 -Ink Shield, a waterfall of ink that blocks enemy ink ?and hurts enemy players? -Sprinkler, spins around and constantly shoots out ink at short range
Special -Barrier, looks like it makes you invincible temporarily -Ink Launcher, official name of super from E3 2014 -Ink Tornado, call in nuke strike, attack looks like a giant tornado
Edit Jan 15: Corrected the Ink Launcher and Ink Tornado, corrected Nuke Brush to Paint Brush, added Scoped Ink Rifle, corrected Quick Ink Rifle, added Super Ink Roller
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Post by DaKid on Jan 16, 2015 0:03:42 GMT
The Quick Ink Rifle looks like it shoots a long continuous stream of ink going by the quick glimpse in the Singleplayer trailer. Also theres another sub and special weapon that haven't been shown in action at all. It's on the Paintbrush set. Looks like a bullhorn and treasure chest. Theres another weapon on the red gun set that looks like a big tube of some kind.
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Post by JP4464 on Jan 16, 2015 5:18:01 GMT
Bunch of screenshots here:nintendoeverything.com/splatoon-screenshots-3/Gameplay:It actually looks like you can choose your weapon, sub, and special and mix and match however you want. If you look at gears and stats, you'll see something interesting. ^At the bottom you can see the headgear, clothes, and shoes. Notice how there's a number of stars next to them, the highest seeming to be 3 stars. Below you can see one primary stat enhancement, and below that you can see what seems to be more slots for stat effects. The number of additional slots follows the number of stars whichever gear has. How do you fill up those slots? Better question is, will they actually add more stats on the gear? Or something else? I'm thinking that maybe, by using gear a number of times you can get them individually leveled up gradually the more you use them. It's possible they add more subtle stats boost to your character in addition to the main stat boost, or just makes the main stat boost better. Also curious of the last longer bar below that. Hmm..... What do you think? In any case, this Nintendo Direct just made it extremely Splatoon can be played competitively. Regarding the number of stars compared to the number of questions marks... In a new post on the Splatoon Tumblr, you can see that the stars and question marks don't correlate with each other.
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Post by TheBlackbird on Jan 16, 2015 5:26:57 GMT
Your first two pictures are broken.
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Post by DaKid on Jan 16, 2015 6:03:14 GMT
Yeah, that seems to always happen using pics from Nineverything.
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Post by MoonMonkey on Jan 16, 2015 17:21:42 GMT
has anyone translated what it says next to those 3 meters?
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Post by nap1400 on Jan 16, 2015 17:31:26 GMT
It was in English during the segment at the Nintendo Direct. Something like Range, Mobility, Rate or something like that. I think it changed depending on what weapon was used though.
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Post by KOAHonSiZi on Jan 16, 2015 18:06:41 GMT
I just realized that the clothes all have different brands. I wonder if that will affect anything.
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Post by DaKid on Jan 17, 2015 21:14:49 GMT
Noticed Something interesting... It looks like whatever stat change this had was removed indicated by the X for it. It is possible it stands for a stat change but that seems unlikely since its the only one like this. Could mean some things.. 1. You can remove stat effects on gear. 2. You can both remove and switch out different stats for others that are gear type specific. So far stats for gear have been seen to be purchased with Specific stat changes. Same with weapons except with Special and Sub weapons. I think that both aren't tied to the weapon/gear. In the case of gear and weapons it's a way to purchase not only the main weapon/gear, but the Sub and Special weapons/stats, but they can be switched out. In the case of weapons its basically just giving you a suggestion for the best set up for the main weapon in the game's opinion, but you can choose what you like, or remove one.
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Xeiros
Inkling Admiral
Posts: 253
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Post by Xeiros on Jan 18, 2015 14:15:34 GMT
All your worries are completely unfounded. We know next to nothing of how exactly the weapon, stat, and appearance systems are going to work in the final game. Getting worried over what amounts to a bunch of empty speculation based on vague information is laughable. At least wait until we have more solid facts and actually spent a good amount of time with the final product before claiming the sky is falling.
The developers aren't stupid. Do you honestly think we're the only ones who realized players might not want to have to choose between effective stats and their inkling's appearance? Especially considering how much of the reward system in the game goes towards earning the ability to express yourself through the many outfit and weapon options available to you. If we've thought of a potential issue now, they've already been through dealing with it months ago. They plan. They're not just making it up as they go along.
A worry is an irrational fear. Don't let your fear control you.
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hawk
Full Squid
a.k.a. Hock
Posts: 53
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Post by hawk on Jan 18, 2015 14:42:17 GMT
It's ok xeiros, it's not like we're tearing our hair out over this
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Post by Shield Slam on Jan 18, 2015 16:28:55 GMT
I had a huge reply typed out comparing this clothing system to World of Warcraft's "twinking" community, but decided it could make more sense if it were summarized.
In short, twinking is stopping leveling your character to get the best gear available at that level, usually for PvPing. This can be applied to Splatoon in the sense that the best gear available may not always be the best-looking. We suffered through years of ugly equipment sets for the sake of competition, and no one really minded.
If a certain type of boost is only available through a certain piece of clothing that someone doesn't like how it looks, I don't think it's a very big deal, competitively. WoW's 19's had basically 2 ways to build a Rogue for years, and even though it didn't look very cool, and there was basically zero room for customization (if you still wanted functionality), it was a very obvious distinction and you wouldn't miss a twink when you saw one because they all looked the same.
I won't at all mind a competitive Splatoon scene that looks like clones, only if no one complains about how goofy their character looks.
I also fully agree with Xeiros.
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Post by zack4812 on Jan 18, 2015 20:36:04 GMT
May was earlier than I expected, and that central hub looks NICE.
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