Xeiros
Inkling Admiral
Posts: 253
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Post by Xeiros on Jan 18, 2015 20:47:25 GMT
I'm extremely curious to see exactly how all the various weapons are going to work as far as ink spreading efficiency is concerned. A lot of them at first glance anyway seem to fit far better in a game where the object is to kill the other players than it is to cover the most ground in your team's color. Well at least in Turf War. I have a feeling that certain weapons are going to be phenomenal in one game type, but horrendous in another. Which is fine. It makes sense from a practicality standpoint as they each have different focuses regarding their intended use.
Well as far as Ink per second or IPS is concerned. Basically, since the game awards you points based on the amount of clean ground or the other team's ink you cover with your own, you get instant direct feedback in regards to how efficient a particular weapon is at actually spreading ink as quickly as possible. I just cannot see a weapon like the Quick Ink Rifle being anywhere near as good as the 5.2 Gallon in the Turf War game type. Luckily there are going to be other game types with the focus being on choosing the right build to fit the scenario in question so depending on that all weapons should hopefully be equally viable.
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Post by KOAHonSiZi on Jan 18, 2015 21:22:44 GMT
I had a huge reply typed out comparing this clothing system to World of Warcraft's "twinking" community, but decided it could make more sense if it were summarized. In short, twinking is stopping leveling your character to get the best gear available at that level, usually for PvPing. This can be applied to Splatoon in the sense that the best gear available may not always be the best-looking. We suffered through years of ugly equipment sets for the sake of competition, and no one really minded. If a certain type of boost is only available through a certain piece of clothing that someone doesn't like how it looks, I don't think it's a very big deal, competitively. WoW's 19's had basically 2 ways to build a Rogue for years, and even though it didn't look very cool, and there was basically zero room for customization (if you still wanted functionality), it was a very obvious distinction and you wouldn't miss a twink when you saw one because they all looked the same. I won't at all mind a competitive Splatoon scene that looks like clones, only if no one complains about how goofy their character looks. I also fully agree with Xeiros. I really appreciate your and Xeiros's comments. While it's really early in this community's lifespan, I feel as a whole we're teetering too closely towards a hostile and pessimistic environment.
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Post by KOAHonSiZi on Jan 18, 2015 21:28:20 GMT
I'm extremely curious to see exactly how all the various weapons are going to work as far as ink spreading efficiency is concerned. A lot of them at first glance anyway seem fit far better in a game where the object is to kill the other players than it is to cover the most ground in your team's color. Well at least in Turf War. I have a feeling that certain weapons are going to be phenomenal in one game type, but horrendous in another. Which is fine. It makes sense from a particularity standpoint. Well as far as Ink per second or IPS is concerned. Basically, since the game awards you points based on the amount of clean ground or the other team's ink you cover with your own, you get instant direct feedback in regards to how efficient a particular weapon is at actually spreading ink as quickly as possible. I just cannot see a weapon like the Quick Ink Rifle being anywhere near as good as the 5.2 Gallon in the Turf War game type. Luckily there are going to be other game types with the focus being on choosing the right build to fit the scenario in question so depending on that all weapons should hopefully be equally viable. One interesting thing there is how IPS is tied to what your weapon is trying to do. In a noncombative environment where you're only inking the ground, the roller will probably completely out class all other weapons in IPS. However, in an actual match, a great marksman with a weapon designed to take out the enemy could theoretically have a much higher actual IPS with constant kills. Not only that, but you also have the fact that taking out someone removes their ability to ink other players or the ground, so a good anti player weapon has both high potential for IPS in the kill shots and high negative IPS for the opponents' team due to the down time of respawning. Sure that negative IPS won't be quantified in coins earned, but in an actual match that stuff really matters.
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Xeiros
Inkling Admiral
Posts: 253
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Post by Xeiros on Jan 18, 2015 22:21:05 GMT
It's tough to say how much of an impact splattering will have. I said this already in another thread, but basically you need to kill someone while they're standing in their own color ink if you want to spread some of your own as well when you splatter them. It comes down to whether or not going after splatters is worth simply focusing on spreading ink. I'm not talking about situations wherein two inklings happen to cross each others path and try do the other in because they can. This is an ink spreading build versus a splatter farming build comparison.
A splatter only matters if again it's done when they're standing or swimming in their own ink as far as spreading your team's ink is concerned. I cannot see how going out of your way to only focus on splattering players instead of spreading ink will earn you a better score. The higher the score, the more you've contributed to your team's total percentage. You could try and argue that splattering players costs the other team valuable time, but even that's negligible when the squid jump is factored in. You'd have to kill all four of them at once for it to make any real difference and if they're all clustered up to even make that possible, they deserve it.
I guess we'll have to wait and see. I'll be quite surprised if one who focuses solely on getting splatters comes anywhere near the score of someone who focus solely on spreading ink in total contributed points. The points that win games. The points that directly earn you the coins you need to buy weapons and gear. You don't get coins for winning, you get them for spreading lots of ink. I'm talking about extremes here though. In reality most will likely just spread ink and only try to splatter other inklings when it's either convenient or they're about to get spattered first.
There's also team efficiency to consider. There will be overlap if all four players are trying to cover the same area at once. Hell even just two in the same area can be overkill depending on the size of location. Ink gets wasted. In that case, at least one player on the team running interference by disrupting the other teams ink flow with well placed splatters could be just what the doctor ordered. I'm not saying that splatters are completely worthless, but you'd need to be skilled to make it worth your team's while. Luckily I know some players are more than ready to walk the walk.
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Post by DaKid on Jan 18, 2015 22:57:54 GMT
Actually from observing the splatters in the trailers it seems like depending on the weapon, Inkling splatters will be small, normal, to large. A good example would be the Roller, it seems to have the biggest Inkling splatter radius I've seen so far. It makes sense given it's a melee weapon with no projectile capability. Howerver, that other Roller seems to have a projectile though... I think pure melee/slow weapons like the Rollers, Brushes and Sniper Rifles will have the biggest splatter radius, the fast weapons having the smallest, and the more heavier ones being medium. This is all speculation though.
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Xeiros
Inkling Admiral
Posts: 253
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Post by Xeiros on Jan 18, 2015 23:22:49 GMT
I'd be pretty impressed if you could even get consistent splatters with a melee weapon. I'd just see myself getting blasted full of ink every time if I tried to just run up to someone to beat them over the head with my paint roller. Either that or they could taunt me by turning into a squid and swimming circles around me. Hold still please. It's easiest to splatter another player when they're floundering around in your team's ink, but doing so will add little to your team's percentage since well it's already your color. Long story short, I fear getting kited by ranged builds.
I wonder if movement speed; that is to say, not as a squid swimming in your own ink might be affected by either your weapon or clothing. I wouldn't be surprised if it was or could be a bonus effect on certain pieces of clothing. You'd want to focus on a build that best complimented your weapon of choice. I hope both ranged and melee will be equally viable. Oftentimes there's a noticeable difference in quality between them with one having the clear advantage. I have faith the developers won't let us down.
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Post by KOAHonSiZi on Jan 19, 2015 1:08:52 GMT
It's tough to say how much of an impact splattering will have. I said this already in another thread, but basically you need to kill someone while they're standing in their own color ink if you want to spread some of your own as well when you splatter them. It comes down to whether or not going after splatters is worth simply focusing on spreading ink. I'm not talking about situations wherein two inklings happen to cross each others path and try do the other in because they can. This is an ink spreading build versus a splatter farming build comparison. A splatter only matters if again it's done when they're standing or swimming in their own ink as far as spreading your team's ink is concerned. I cannot see how going out of your way to only focus on splattering players instead of spreading ink will earn you a better score. The higher the score, the more you've contributed to your team's total percentage. You could try and argue that splattering players costs the other team valuable time, but even that's negligible when the squid jump is factored in. You'd have to kill all four of them at once for it to make any real difference and if they're all clustered up to even make that possible, they deserve it. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I'll be quite surprised if one who focuses solely on getting splatters comes anywhere near the score of someone who focus solely on spreading ink in total contributed points. The points that win games. The points that directly earn you the coins you need to buy weapons and gear. You don't get coins for winning, you get them for spreading lots of ink. I'm talking about extremes here though. In reality most will likely just spread ink and only try to splatter other inklings when it's either convenient or they're about to get spattered first. There's also team efficiency to consider. There will be overlap if all four players are trying to cover the same area at once. Hell even just two in the same area can be overkill depending on the size of location. Ink gets wasted. In that case, at least one player on the team running interference by disrupting the other teams ink flow with well placed splatters could be just what the doctor ordered. I'm not saying that splatters are completely worthless, but you'd need to be skilled to make it worth your team's while. Luckily I know some players are more than ready to walk the walk. But squid jump doesn't give you the positioning you had before. If you're deep and get splattered while the rest of your team is mid at best, you've just lost a huge positional advantage as the other team can just clean up all of your progress uncontested. This is a risk anyone takes when they go solo away from the main fight. It creates an interesting dynamic where you cover more as a solo player, but you're much safer when everyone is together. Even the threat of antiplayer weapons can scare teams into groups where they are much safer from a splat, but they all cover much less space, especially as rollers. So even your mere presence as an antiplayer class can immediately lower an experienced teams IPS, and if they don't respond appropriately, then you can just splatter them and take that advantage much more easily.
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Xeiros
Inkling Admiral
Posts: 253
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Post by Xeiros on Jan 19, 2015 1:37:43 GMT
It's going to take a certain level of communication to coordinate an actual team effort like that. I mean, I can easily see many players just sort of doing their own thing with those three other guys that just happen to be painting the same color they are. You're talking about actual team work and cooperation. In match voice chat at the very least when playing with friends is a must for that.
Squid Jump lessens the impact of potential time lost. It's not just about positioning. Being able to instantly jump to another teammates location or back to your spawn point is huge. All I'm saying is it makes getting back in the action much quicker than it would normally. You're not necessarily trying to make it back to the exact spot you were splattered. The map will play a large role. There's so much there for a cohesive team to work with in high level play. Just thinking about it gets me excited and I don't even know the half of it.
Main fight? You act as if the primary objective is to splatter each other. As if looking for a confrontation is a good thing. Well at this point it's all just theory-crafting which is nice in it's own way I suppose. We could make up scenarios all day, but with so few facts to work with it's not good for much more than killing the time until release. Not that I mind of course.
It's fun to imagine of all the different team combinations with just this small taste of the customization options we've been given thus far. I love that this game appears to allow multiple play styles the chance to succeed. This game is going to get players that don't normally play shooters period be they third or first person either because they just don't normally care for or if you're like me are just plain bad at them in general to give it a go. Just by changing the primary goal it opens up so much for a large community. It thrills me to see the overwhelming potential this game has as a new competitive IP.
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Post by DaKid on Jan 19, 2015 4:36:00 GMT
Man I can't wait for more footage and info on the game. I want to see more maps and modes now.
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jc
Senior Squid
Posts: 66
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Post by jc on Jan 20, 2015 4:57:55 GMT
aaaaaaah!!! i just watched the direct (i know i'm a bit late), but everything is so cool! i'll probably enjoy the game regardless of it certain combinations are the best or they can't be turned off etc.
in the case of a bunch of viable options, cool! we can do whatever we want! in the case of a few viable options, cool! people will know what to prepare for! i've always been fine with things being mirror matches. the only issue is if the "best" options are hard to get.
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Xeiros
Inkling Admiral
Posts: 253
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Post by Xeiros on Jan 20, 2015 12:37:00 GMT
I'm just happy you earn money based on your ink score and not on whether your team won or lost. So your team can lose, but because you had such a high ink score you made some nice dough anyway. It rewards individual effort which in turn helps your team to victory as well. You can't just piggyback off your teammates scores and expect to win lots of money that way.
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